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Talk:Voigtländer Brillant

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Czech and Slovak language Edit

SGML-- Presumably this means "Czech"; conceivably it means "Slovak" or "Czech and Slovak". Anyway, there was no "Czechoslovak" language. --

The text was in Czech AND Slovak. According to Cupog, the words on the camera were chosen to have the same meaning in both languages. While a Czechoslovak language does not exist, it could be considered a Czechoslovak edition of the camera.--driesvandenelzen 09:42, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Film type Edit

SGML-- What frame size, what film? I hazily (mis)remember that back in those very early days, the backing of 120 wasn't marked for 6x6. Says Hoary. The original Rolleiflex using 117 film was made from 1928 to 1932 and it switched to 120 film in 1932, so 120 film was marked for 6x6 from this date. --

I remember the same thing. BUT. (1) suggest back numbers were present in 1895. Since 120 Roll film was introduced in 1901 (2), this cannot be direct proof for back numbering on 120 film. However, the Pocket Kodak No. 1 series II, whilst using A120 film, had been using a ruby window for framecounting. It was discontinued in 1932, so I suspect back numbers had been around long before 1932.--driesvandenelzen 10:06, 19 January 2007 (EST)

(1) History of Kodak (2) 120 film on wikipedia

We can certainly take Cupog's word for matters Czech or Slovak!
Certainly 120 had backing paper with numbers. The question is whether it had numbers for 6x6. Rebello fr suggests that it did. -- Hoary 11:32, 19 January 2007 (EST)
The date of the first 6×6 numbers on 120 film obviously varies from country to country. The only certainty is that at least some film makers had 6×6 numbers in 1932 because Franke & Heidecke launched a Rolleiflex that could take both 117 and 120. The success of the Rolleiflex and of the Brillant obviously helped to spread this.
Moreover Voigtländer was selling its own rollfilm at the time. I have no idea if it was made by the company or bought elsewhere, but it could certainly decide to sell 120 film with 6×6 numbers.
In Japan, the first 6×6 cameras are dated 1935 and they either have a primitive exposure counter or three red windows with a complicated advance pattern, like the first version of the Minolta Six. So in that country, the 6×6 markings became widespread around 1936 or so. I guess that the few wealthy Japanese Rolleiflex users could afford to buy imported film that was already specially marked. --Rebollo fr 13:36, 19 January 2007 (EST)
A German Ebay auction, [[1]], currently shows a Brillant's open back with a ruby window in an odd position. It is marked 6x9 film and B2, i. e. Brownie 2 film or 120 film. I'm not sure if this is an early example, but its use of Kodak's B2 code suggests the use of 6x6 numbers was common and the location of the ruby window suggests they were on a different position from where they are today.
--driesvandenelzen 16:48, 7 February 2007 (EST)
Please disregard my above comments about the Rolleiflex: it has automatic stop advance from 1932 and thus does not need a set of numbers for 6×6. --Rebollo fr 06:00, 15 February 2007 (EST)
402033500_efd80210f2.jpg
Voigtländer film (1)

This discussion has spurred me to buy an early Brillant. Judging by the film ad on the pressure plate , it seems Voigtländer was indeed selling its own film(1).

402041847_57580fe6dc.jpg
Brillant bottom plate (2)

Moreover, the place of the ruby window in the bottom plate suggests the frame numbers were near the edge of the paper(2). The plate is marked "6x9 Film" and "B2".

402033502_5a21157cb9.jpg
film chamber (3)

It is Apart from this, the Brillant also had a mechanical frame counter. It was not coupled with the transport knob, but a small wheel 'senses' the film being transported(3). --driesvandenelzen 12:25, 25 February 2007 (EST)

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